Welcome to OnlineConversion.com Forums

 OnlineConversion Forums Water/Methanol density vs. freeze point
 [ Home ] [ Forum Home ] Register FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

 Convert and Calculate Post any conversion related questions and discussions here. If you're having trouble converting something, this is where you should post.* Guest Posting is allowed.

#1
07-07-2007, 12:48 PM
 auto guy Guest Posts: n/a
Water/Methanol density vs. freeze point

I'm currently setting up some equipment to mix and dispense windshield washer solvent into cars. The spec calls for 3 parts water to 2 parts methanol with a Specific Gravity of 0.942 nominal and a freeze point of -30 degrees Celcious (no higher). I have a digital meter that will give me the specific gravity or the density of the solution. How do I convert from SG or Kg/cu.m to a freeze point for this solution?
#2
07-07-2007, 10:29 PM
 janiceruth Guest Posts: n/a
Re: Water/Methanol density vs. freeze point

I'm sorry I don't understand the problem if you are given the ratio by the manufacturer. 3-2 should give you what is needed...
#3
07-07-2007, 10:31 PM
 Robert Fogt Administrator Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 3,449 Rep Power: 13
Re: Water/Methanol density vs. freeze point

You cant go directly from a density to a freeze point. They are not directly related enough.
#4
07-08-2007, 12:00 PM
 auto guy Guest Posts: n/a
Re: Water/Methanol density vs. freeze point

Can I directly convert between the Brix or API readings to Freeze Point? I have to simplify this as much as possible for a quality inspector to check the mix once per shift.
#5
07-08-2007, 12:59 PM
 Mrs X can't count, can't spell! Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: New Zealand Posts: 2,409 Rep Power: 12
Re: Water/Methanol density vs. freeze point

If you use AR methanol (i.e.really pure), and pure (milli-Q or similar) water, and use the exact mix stated, then stir well at room temperature, does your digital density meter give the result accurately? - This solution is going to absorb water, so over time, if it is left sitting, the freezing point will go up. Therefore, you could also check the measurement for 3.5 parts water, and 1.5 parts methanol.

A domestic chest freezer is about -24°C, so if your sealed solution froze in that then that would possibly be a fail.

I couldn't find any data on the internet that related freezing point to density or mix for the methanol/water system, sorry.
#6
07-08-2007, 01:01 PM
 Mrs X can't count, can't spell! Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: New Zealand Posts: 2,409 Rep Power: 12
Re: Water/Methanol density vs. freeze point

I don't know what API readings are, and Brix is to do with sugar solutions.
#7
07-08-2007, 05:23 PM
 Robert Fogt Administrator Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 3,449 Rep Power: 13
Re: Water/Methanol density vs. freeze point

API is directly related to the specific gravity. Its a scale used for petroleum in the oil industry.

Rereading your question, I see you already know the freeze point of the substances involved right? You need to know the freeze point of the combined substances? You can probably work that out algebraically, no need to bring density into the equation at all.
#8
07-08-2007, 07:44 PM
 Mrs X can't count, can't spell! Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: New Zealand Posts: 2,409 Rep Power: 12
Re: Water/Methanol density vs. freeze point

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Robert Fogt API is directly related to the specific gravity. Its a scale used for petroleum in the oil industry. Rereading your question, I see you already know the freeze point of the substances involved right? You need to know the freeze point of the combined substances? You can probably work that out algebraically, no need to bring density into the equation at all.
Thanks for explaining the API values.

This is why chemistry is so much fun! These values are almost always determined experimentally, as the freezing point of different mixes of two materials will almost never lie along a straight line between the freezing points of the two pure materials. There may also be some hysteresis involved. (differing freezing and melting points.) Hence the maximum freezing point required.
#9
02-25-2008, 05:24 PM
 JohnS Moderator Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: SE Michigan, USA Posts: 9,438 Rep Power: 19
Re: Water/Methanol density vs. freeze point

I will jump in the "way back machine" here. The CRC Handbook of Chemistry and Physics has a set of tables called "Concentrative Properties of Aqueous Solutions" and Table 36 is methanol mixed in water. In my 70th edition, the tables start on page D-221.

Unfortunately, it is based on mixture by weight, so extra playing around with the densities of the original ingredients is necessary to get mixture by volume. Among the properties it gives is freezing point depression, and mixture density.

The following properties are given in each row
% methanol by weight, solution density, freezing point
32%, 0.9482 kg/L, -28.15 °C
34%, 0.9450 kg/L, -30.48 °C
36%, 0.9416 kg/L, -32.97 °C
NOTE: The densities are for solution at 20 °C and I do not have a temperature correction to other temperatures.

Basically, the 34% solution should be the target. You could interpolate and slightly lower could be tolerated. The variation in density is not very great given a change in performance; this may not be a very sensitive QC test.

1 L of the 34% (by weight) mixture weighs 945 g and requires 321.3 g methanol and 623.7 g water. Using 20 °C densities of 0.7917 kg/L and 0.9982 kg/L respectively, this requires 405.8 mL methanol and 624.8 mL water to mix 1 L (note that volume is not conserved). The 34% by weight mixture is 40.58% by (mixed) volume and the ratio of ingredients is 2 parts methanol, 3.08 parts water, very close to the given 2:3.

This series of tables includes (each mixed with water) ethanol, ethylene glycol, propylene glycol, actually a total of 99 chemicals.
#10
04-10-2008, 01:19 AM
 Unregistered Guest Posts: n/a
Re: Water/Methanol density vs. freeze point

Can u tell what is the value for density of methanol-water mixture at 1 bar and constant temperature?

 Thread Tools Display Modes Linear Mode

 Posting Rules You may post new threads You may post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts BB code is On Smilies are On [IMG] code is On HTML code is Off Forum Rules
 Forum Jump User Control Panel Private Messages Subscriptions Who's Online Search Forums Forums Home Main Forums     Convert and Calculate     Resources     General Chat

All times are GMT -8. The time now is 06:24 AM.