Metric Vs Imperial in the UK, a long awaited change?

[Jen]

Hi, my names Jen and im a second year graphic design student from the Plymouth University, in England. I've just used the converters on this site to help me with my up coming design for a advertising campiagn against Imperial measure in the UK.
With the Olympics coming to London in 2012 we have had to rethink our signage and how we accommodate europeans, and others that live by the metric rule.

Should we change all our measurements to metric or keep that quirky but complicated way called imperial?

I was asked to do this project after discussion about globalisation, and how it effects myself and others around me. The obvious route to take up was the biggest global organisation/ event in the world, the Olympics; which just happened to be coming to my captial in the future.
I have posted here just to ask for any opinions on the subject, i have really gotten involved in this project and have taken up a great interest in how it will change our lives. How can just a measurement change a country?econmy, travel, trade, communications, the list goes on. How can i not be throughly interested? I've been brought up with both measurements and it can be frustrating to live with!
My country has gone through a lot of change over the past centry so this can only add to how far we have come in the world; and maybe propell us into a more global and co-operative way of life? Okay, i think ive bantered on long enough, i think i'll have to use this for my project evaluation!

So the question i am asking is. . .
Do you believe that metric is the way forward for the world?

Any opinions are very welcome! also, can anyone think of any clichés within these two forms of measurement? or any puns that could be used? i already have a plan for what to do but i know from experience that there is always someone on the other side of the world that has the same/similar idea, maybe you could help me? :) Any way, thanks for reading, hope i didnt go on to much!

[Robert Fogt]

I would say the biggest benefit of the metric system is in terms of trade between other countries.

For example, many countries have a different version of the pound, so if you sell them a pound of apples it could be confusing. Though there is only one kilogram, so when you sell them a kilogram of apples there is no question as to exactly how much it is.

[Kilopoop]

It might be a good idea to learn how to spell and to write basic grammar before criticising a system that most people in the UK appear to prefer !

[Leopold Plumtree]

It's my understanding that the UK already is pretty much metric with only a few exceptions.

[Kilopoop]

If "the people" is that exception then yes -hmm- well maybe not actually.

I think there is a perception outside the UK that the UK is "pretty metric".

I suggest that watching British Television or listening to British Radio (over the web) would answer that. In fact, try to listen to a "phone in" show over the web - you'll be surprised. But not as surprised as the average Brit (obviously) ;-)

I would agree that the US is "more imperial" than the UK though.

[Robert Fogt]

Technically, the US has been metric since 1976. But the general civilian population is a bit slow to abandon traditional units of measurements.

Becoming metric does not happen overnight, it takes time. Every generation finds us more and more metric. For the most part, a country with a small population may find everyone using metric in just a generation or two, countries with large populations take longer.

[kilopoop]

The interesting thing is where technology and law appears to amend that trend.

Two examples immediately spring to mind in the UK - it's illegal to use metric on road signs (except as optional supplementary on dimensions) - however until a few years ago this law was only "generally" enforced. Recently the Dept of Transport started to enforce the use of non-metric signs and so we saw the odd sign or two disappear in favour of imperial signs (I remember ridiculous sights such as "London 23m" followed by "Slippery Road 200m") . This moves me on to my second example which is that of technology - GPS systems. These systems are extremely popular in the UK and they use spoken/written miles and yards (I presume US ones use miles and feet). Road signs and GPS systems are far more visible than dual marked grocery items (where the consumer still quoted imperial) or health and safety small print.

There is also the (incorrect) assumption that the EU (or "Brussels") is to blame for metric usage in the UK. Because the EU is generally seen as an unpopular institution the metric system has been seen as its "brother" and has been seen as a much more political "statist" form of measurement, increasingly so from the 1970's when metric briefly enjoyed popularity (I guess following decimalization of sterling).

I mention "incorrect" because these laws would have had to have been approved in some way, no matter how subtle, by late night session in parliament (usually hidden within a treaty, or similar).

[Leopold Plumtree]

If "the people" is that exception then yes -hmm- well maybe not actually.

Must be a situation like Canada - officially metric but customary measures are commonly used.


I would agree that the US is "more imperial" than the UK though.

The US doesn't use Imperial. We us US Customary.


Technically, the US has been metric since 1976. But the general civilian population is a bit slow to abandon traditional units of measurements.

In some ways, the US has been metric since 1893. That's when the yard and pound were defined in terms of metric units (with slightly different values than are used today).

[Kilopoop]

"Must be a situation like Canada - officially metric but customary measures are commonly used"

Although they changed all their roads (signs) - which must be very highly visable "evidence" of a form of metrication.

I'm not sure about Canadian roads but UK roads tend to be very "verbose" and changing all the signs would definitely be noticed! (and controversial).

[Leopold Plumtree]

"Must be a situation like Canada - officially metric but customary measures are commonly used"

Although they changed all their roads (signs) - which must be very highly visable "evidence" of a form of metrication.

It is, but a typical Canadian will use customary measures to state their height, and most building materials are in customary sizes (which I hear is not the case in the UK).

[Robert Fogt]

Good point.

In the U.S., all buildings, roads, city blocks, etc., are defined in terms of the traditional foot. Imagine having to change all that. Until everything has been replaced and used metric units we couldn't say "Its one block" we would have to say "Its 160.9344 meters", until a metric block was established.

The U.S. has changed in the past. We used to use a survey foot and now use the international foot, so I know we eventually can become metric. We just need more support from the media to gain acceptance with the general civilian population.

[Mrs X]

When we changed here, I was eight. The change happened overnight (at least legally), and the school teachers had been well primed, and actually liked the metric system. It is much, much easier to teach in. We were taught both systems side by side for a couple of years, but after that it was pretty smooth going, and only the metric system was taught.

[kilopoop]

"but a typical Canadian will use customary measures to state their height, and most building materials are in customary sizes (which I hear is not the case in the UK)."

In the UK almost no-one uses metric for their height and weight (ft in, st lb is used almost exclusively). This is true of all ages, right from the moment babies are born (except then its lb oz!).
I cannot comment on building materials as I am not in the profession, however I am sure it is a mix of metric and imperial. When buildings are put up for let or rent the quoted space is always shown in sq ft and/or £ /sq ft although I have seen the odd building show sq m in brackets down to a ridiculous degree of accuracy (ie. they simply used a calculator, worked it out and used two or even three digits after the decimal point).

"We were taught both systems side by side for a couple of years, but after that it was pretty smooth going, and only the metric system was taught."

This is interesting regarding how Canada did it. Here in the UK there was a switch to metric only education in the early 80's but about the mid-90's imperial was brought back and is now a legal requirement on the national curriculum. Ironically it would now be unlawful to go to school and not be taught "imperial measures in use today" (I say 'ironic' in light to many draconian rules that have been put in place that seem to favour metric). I guess it might have come about as a result of kids hearing imperial outside the school gate and having to learn it "instinctively" or via the family. Having said that, Imperial is *not* taught as a scientific system of measurement - it's taught within the maths part of the curriculum.

[Mrs X]

Hi Kilopoop, sorry, I didn't mean to mislead you, I'm not from Canada.

[kilopoop]

No problem Mrs X!

Where were you referring to? Aus? Nz?

When I went to school in the UK in the eighties it was during that "pre-curriculum" time when they made schooling "metric only" - or - in reality - up to the schoolteacher. Obviously kids will have asked questions regarding miles, stones, pints and the like as that was the "language of the street" so to speak. To be honest it was so far back that I can't remember that much :-)

Current curriculum approved Maths books found in shops will have a section on measurement systems that includes both metric and imperial.

[Mrs X]

Hi, I live in NZ, and we changed here during the early - mid 70's. I think the success is making the change legally, then running both systems side by side, until people get used to it. Petrol was delivered in both gallons, and liters, for example. Even the butter was sold as pound/500g, and marked in 50g/2oz slices. The butter was marked this way for quite a few years. From the viewpoint of a child, I heard the adults grumbling about it, then saw them getting used to the new system very quickly. What they were really grumbling about of course, was "change". In general, everyone is scared of the unknown, but whoever organised it here made it as smooth and easy as possible, given the actual difficulties.

[VirtualLlama]

Hi all!

I just wanted to make a few comments about metric in the UK that have come from both experience and research.

First of all, as has been mentioned here, the US doesn't use imperial units. Many units are the same, but some differ, notably the "ton", "gallon" and "pint". It was mentioned that the US no longer use the "survey foot" which does differ slightly from the "international foot", however this is not true as official US Geodetic Survey Maps still use the survey foot.

Going to Canada... the reason that US customary measures are still found there is because it is so close to the USA. On a recent visit I was met by fahrenheit on TV weather reports in Toronto but only because the stations being received came from across the border; I'm guessing the same would be true of other measurements still used in every day lif as they see and hear them on TV. You do often see metric in use in the USA though... and many Americans I've spoken to don't understand why they're not converting more quickly.

Back to the UK though... the biggest problem is that in areas that are not currently metric it is actually illegal to use metric - for instance I cannot insist that my doorstep milk is delivered in litres and I cannot ask my local publican for 1/2 litre of lager. Local authorities can't put up many road signs in metric. Interestingly, if you put up a road sign that says "metres" or "km" it will be removed quite quickly, whereas if you illegally use the word "ton" the sign will remain! The same happens in retail and I've found through personal experience that the authorities will happily act when metric is used illegaly, though they drag their feet and sometimes can't even be bothered when imperial is illegally used. Given the UK is supposed to have an obligation to convert, this seems mad!

In response to the use of "lb and oz" with newborn babies, even this isn't completely true. If medical staff weigh or measure a person in the UK they do so in metric... but then usually convert it back to imperial before telling the patient.

And the EU is probabably the biggest problem with completing conversion. The UK decided to convert back in the 1800's, well before the EU. The current attempt to convert started in the 1960;s before the UK joined the EU... the only place where the EU is involved is that, when joining, the UK government comitted to completing conversion. But that hasn't yet happened and when laws do change the EU is "blamed" for forcing the unpopular new system on us.

And yes, if asked in an opinion poll people will say they prefer imperial because it's what they use. Try asking people "how many feet in a mile?" and you'll get blank stares or an answer of 1000... which just proves that people don't really understand imperial and they would be more likely to understand metric! Forget gradual conversion... K-day is the answer!!!

[kilopoop]

"whereas if you illegally use the word "ton" the sign will remain!"

I think this might be to do with the fact that a ton and a tonne are so close (given the accuracy of bridge weight/ road weight abilities) that the difference is negligable.

P.S. Regarding how many feet in a mile - in practice that's a question that no-one will ever get asked unless you're on the "Weakest Link" or using a trivia quiz machine in a pub ;-)

And yes I agree with your point that linking metric with the EU has probably pushed metrication further down the road than ever before.

[fred]

Metric units of mass, length, and electricity are widely used around the world for both everyday and scientific purposes.

ONLY three countries use non-metric measurement systems; Liberia, Myanmar, and the United States. (England now uses the Metric system)

To the question is the metric system is the way of the world the facts speak for themselves.

[Robert Fogt]

ONLY three countries use non-metric measurement systems; Liberia, Myanmar, and the United States.
That isn't true. All countries use the Metric system. The US has been using it officially since the 70's.

Many countries still do use traditional measurements. The US is among them, but hardly one of the only three on your list. Canada still uses the imperial gallon, Thailand still measures land using the wah, Japan still rents apartments based on size in tatami mats, and hundreds of other countries are the same.

I would say its more likely that are not even 3 countries that only use metric and nothing else. Nobody just gives up their history completely, its against human nature.

[Leopold Plumtree]

It's true. Metric is used everywhere, and traditional measures continue to be used to varying extents in countries other than the three mentioned.

[kilopoop]

<<ONLY three countries use non-metric measurement systems; Liberia, Myanmar, and the United States. (England now uses the Metric system)
>>

I agree that this is not true. Totally.
There are many countries that use non-metric and metric to various degrees.

I'm at a loss why that untruth is still peddled - I believe that it might be something to do with "Look! Aside from the USA only backward and/or poor countries use non-metric!" as if to shame the USA or something.

"England" (or, infact, the UK as I believe you mean) uses a mix of imperial and metric. Sometimes more metric, sometimes more imperial. Certainly almost totally imperial in common parlance.

However - If you totally sure that "England" uses just the metric system then maybe you can explain what "m", "yds", "",'" means in this "metric" system used by England. Examples:

London 22m

Traffic lights 200 yds

Max Headroom 6' 2"

How do the above fit into the metric system?

[Robert Fogt]

I beleive it arises from an informal study by a metric group 30 years ago. They contacted the governments of as many countries that they could and asked if they had a formal metric plan in place. Only 2 of the countries they contacted said no. Liberia, and Myanmar.

First of all, this study was informal, second of all it was over 30 years ago, and lastly it was to see if the governments had a formal metric policy, not that if the countries used only the metric system.

None the less, the mis-quoted results of the study made it into school text books, quiz shows, etc. Teachers still teach that in schools because it hasn't been updated in 30 years.

[kilopoop]

A genuine thanks for that.

I've heard that old sentence mentioned so many times on the topic and never knew how it came about.

What you say makes absolute sense - especially in the UK when around 30~40 years ago Britain decimalised it's currency. This may have been mistaken as a "metrication" at the time, or at least put across a perception of great mathematical change.

It's also interesting to note that during that era (early 70's) opinion polls in the UK put metric at its most popular ever (at about 30 to 40%) probably due to the succesful currency change. These days opinion polls put "metric and metrication" popularity anywhere between 3% and 15% depending on the question.

[Robert Fogt]

After some more research, I found that the original study was performed by the Unitied States Metric Association, and they are still updating the survey.

http://lamar.colostate.edu/%7Ehillger/internat.htm

Now it is safe to say that all countries have adopted the metric system in at least some extent.

The two countries, Liberia and Myanmar, which had not yet adopted the metric system 30 years ago, probably have now. They have not been able to contact them but their country's website contains both traditional and metric measurements so we will assume.

[kilopoop]

Yes - I pretty much agree with that.

One interesting point though,
There is a section on that webpage by Chris Keenan who is a UK correspondant to the USMA, according to that page. He states:-

"and metric units are increasingly seen on signs indicating distances in metres"

This is untrue. Furthermore, whereas in the US there is no law outlawing the use of metres/meters on roads there *is* a specific law (believe it or not) that expressively forbids the use of metres on UK roads.

With this in mind it calls the accuracy of the whole page into question, in my opinion. Therefore I consider the page more to do with politics than unbiased representation.

[BayAreaBiker2001]

I myself routinely use metric, despite living in the USA. Since 1992, my weight has been in kilograms, since 1983 my measurements have been in centimeters. MY GPS receiver is set to metric. For biking and running speed, chest and bicep measurements, this can cause an ego boost, for body mass, it too can cause a person to feel good. Weightlifters may feel like wimps due to numbers less than half of usual.

[Rob M]

Canada still uses the imperial gallon

Not true at all. Fuel is sold by the litre, and everything in the grocery store is sold in millilitres or litres. We do, however, still use the pound, which I find pretty ridiculous. Everything pre-packaged in the grocery store is in metric units. However, go to the produce section or meat counter and everything is priced by the pound, with the kilogram price below in small print.

[JohnS]

Yes - I pretty much agree with that.

Furthermore, whereas in the US there is no law outlawing the use of metres/meters on roads there *is* a specific law (believe it or not) that expressively forbids the use of metres on UK roads.



In fact, Federal law permits and defines it. The MUTCD (Manual for Uniform Traffic Control Devices) is our "bible" of road signage and defines format of both Customary and metric unit signage (also dimensions of signs, fonts, etc are defined in both). Speed limits in metric must be in a circle with "km/h" below; Customary speeds must NOT use the circle and optionally have MPH below. Nothing else is very extraordinary. However, metric signage, while legal, is pretty rare. Dual signage for clearance heights or widths is a little more common than other uses. In spite of the UK fear of mixing units on roads, we DON'T have piles of dead bodies around our few metric signs.

States can adopt the Federal MUTCD in toto or make their own "substantially equivalent" extracts. Some States disallow metric, others allow it, NONE use more than a tiny "demo quantity" of metric signage.

Meanwhile the domestic auto industry (and of course imports) is entirely metric, so metric cars run down Customary roads. This is hidden from customers. A metric drawing shows where to put the MPH marks on the speedometer. :)

[Unregistered]

"but a typical Canadian will use customary measures to state their height, and most building materials are in customary sizes (which I hear is not the case in the UK)."

In the UK almost no-one uses metric for their height and weight (ft in, st lb is used almost exclusively). This is true of all ages, right from the moment babies are born (except then its lb oz!).
I cannot comment on building materials as I am not in the profession, however I am sure it is a mix of metric and imperial. When buildings are put up for let or rent the quoted space is always shown in sq ft and/or £ /sq ft although I have seen the odd building show sq m in brackets down to a ridiculous degree of accuracy (ie. they simply used a calculator, worked it out and used two or even three digits after the decimal point).

"We were taught both systems side by side for a couple of years, but after that it was pretty smooth going, and only the metric system was taught."

This is interesting regarding how Canada did it. Here in the UK there was a switch to metric only education in the early 80's but about the mid-90's imperial was brought back and is now a legal requirement on the national curriculum. Ironically it would now be unlawful to go to school and not be taught "imperial measures in use today" (I say 'ironic' in light to many draconian rules that have been put in place that seem to favour metric). I guess it might have come about as a result of kids hearing imperial outside the school gate and having to learn it "instinctively" or via the family. Having said that, Imperial is *not* taught as a scientific system of measurement - it's taught within the maths part of the curriculum.
I myself have used metric since 1975, the year of the Metric Conversion Act.
I was 8 years old then, and very eager to learn the new system, to the point of becoming somewhat proficient within a few minutes, an hour at most.
In 1983, my body measurements went metric, in 1992 my weight went metric. I was very much prepared for the numbers being quite different from when customary units are used. And I live in the USA for crying out loud!
I think the USA has not converted because it has been self-sufficient for so long that it did not see any reason to conform to the rest of the world. Now with globalization a reality, it is high time to convert just to survive in a global economy.

[JohnS]

There is a section on that webpage by Chris Keenan who is a UK correspondant to the USMA, according to that page. He states:-

"and metric units are increasingly seen on signs indicating distances in metres"

This is untrue. Furthermore, whereas in the US there is no law outlawing the use of metres/meters on roads there *is* a specific law (believe it or not) that expressively forbids the use of metres on UK roads.



Well, not entirely, The UK does have such a law. But local councils seem to keep putting up metric signs. And as proof the signs exist, there is a group, ARM (Active Resistance to Metrication) that uses the law as a legal defense when they vandalize the signs, and they have a website listing the signs they have vandalized (so they must have existed.) They also have some overlap with the BWMA (British Weights and Measures Association).

But the UK is quite odd in mostly requiring metric, then forbidding it in a few odd circumstances. Metres and kilometers forbidden on road signs but petrol must be sold in liters. Draft (sorry, forget how you spell it) beer must be sold in pints (or other related pint sizes), while wines and spirits (and beer in bottles) must be metric.

On groceries, metric net contents are mandatory, Imperial are optional.

[Roy Nakatsuka]

I think the USA has not converted because it has been self-sufficient for so long that it did not see any reason to conform to the rest of the world. Now with globalization a reality, it is high time to convert just to survive in a global economy.
I do agree with Poster #30 and the sense of frustration about the pace of metrication in the United States. For now, though, the U.S. is still a big enough economic force that it's even capable of slowing metrication in other countries.

Just four months ago, the European Union abandoned efforts to force metric compliance on the United Kingdom. One of the considerations was that labeling in imperial units helps to market exports to the U.S.!
EU ends 'pointless battle' to make UK metric
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article2431521.ece

[JohnS]

I do agree with Poster #30 and the sense of frustration about the pace of metrication in the United States. For now, though, the U.S. is still a big enough economic force that it's even capable of slowing metrication in other countries.

Just four months ago, the European Union abandoned efforts to force metric compliance on the United Kingdom. One of the considerations was that labeling in imperial units helps to market exports to the U.S.!
EU ends 'pointless battle' to make UK metric
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article2431521.ece

The Imperial markings would help where net contents are marked in weight, length, or area, where our units are reconciled. US gallons and Imperial gallons are quite different (and all subdivisions down to fluid ounce). Where different, Imperial is not permitted for net contents here.

Also note that dual marking is required, metric/US Customary. We are working on making the Customary optional, but it is a "slow go."

Our nutrition facts panel is a little different too. As we have no standard size legislation, you could use an existing package size, but I think you'd have to make up a new label in most cases to comply with US law. (and we have to do the reverse when we ship to you.)

[Unregistered]

I don't understand what the big problem is here.
Why not mandate having both metric and imperial posted on product or road signs? That way, everyone is accommodated. After all, we have at least two languages on our box of Corn Flakes in Canada, and multi language instructions in owners handbooks of electronic equipment we purchase.

I live in western Canada, but only a 15minute drive north of the US border. We travel there quite frequently. We buy product and gasoline (petrol) in US weights and measures ... which by the way, are not true Imperial measure. ie: A US gallon is 3.785 litres, whilst an Imperial gallon is 4.546 litres.
Furthermore, Canadian car speedometers read in metric. Some might have dual readings - Kms and Miles, but my two cars are strictly Kms. This requires I do mental conversions at highway speeds to stay on the right side of the law when traveling in that country ... it's amazing what a traffic fine will do for your powers of mental mathematics. They accept no excuses down there.

Yes, we do tend to use Imperial in the work place when it comes to mechanical or carpentry. Reason being, all my tools are Imperial measurement. ie: Router-bits, drill bits, chisel widths etc. Also, a 1/2" wrench is exactly that and nothing will ever change it. As well, I generally 'think' in Imperial. I can 'judge' a dimension very easily in the measurement I've been using for over 55 years.

Canada is very much influenced by the USA as they are our biggest trading partner. It's much like the mouse sleeping beside the elephant. In general, they cannot be coerced into changing something they see as their God given right to use. Yes, they're pretty stubborn in many respects. But in that matter, so am I ... because at my age, I'm not going to dispose of all my tools and equipment to accommodate anyone.

There is a slight draw back to stubbornness and that is when building cabinetry. Router bits come in Imperial dimensions, but sheet plywood comes in metric. This demands a dual cut using a narrower bit, to obtain a tight fit.

[JohnS]

Just four months ago, the European Union abandoned efforts to force metric compliance on the United Kingdom. One of the considerations was that labeling in imperial units helps to market exports to the U.S.!
EU ends 'pointless battle' to make UK metric
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article2431521.ece

Well, that depends on what you mean by "making metric."
Since 2000 (earlier for prepackaged goods) metric net contents, and metric weighing and pricing of individually-weighed packages has been mandatory in UK and continues to be. As long as traders complied with the law, they were allowed to also post information in Imperial units - supplemental indications (but not the legal basis of the transaction.

The proposed EU Directive for 2010 was to end the tolerance of supplemental indications. That has been relaxed. If traders price and weigh in metric, they can write whatever Imperial nonsense they wish beside it. Prosecutions continue for traders who use illegal (and unchecked) scales, see link. The relative mentioned in the article has also been prosecuted for short-weighing. (This paper is pretty biased on the Imperial side, and neglects to mention that.)
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=508252&in_page_id=1770

[seamanrob]

Technically, the US has been metric since 1976. But the general civilian population is a bit slow to abandon traditional units of measurements.

Becoming metric does not happen overnight, it takes time. Every generation finds us more and more metric. For the most part, a country with a small population may find everyone using metric in just a generation or two, countries with large populations take longer.


Rubbish!! Its not dependant on how many people are in a country - its to do with that countries effort in making a concerted change. In the UK, we all still use miles per hour on the roads - because no one has bothered to change it.
When I was growing up, I was taught centimetres and millimetres as standard (1983) with inches feet and yards as a secondary measurement - hence I always refer to most things metric in the first instance and imperial as a secondary (although certain things I measure purely in imperial - such as bagged sweets in quarters for example).
This was the result of a generation in government introducing the metric system of measurement to schools.
If the US administration doesnt tell its schools to teach metric first and foremost, then nothing will change! Just like our road measurements.
so it has nothing to do with the population of the country at all, just its attitude.

[Unregistered]

I hope the Labour government doesn't ban the imperial system [don't they have more important things to do?]. I am a architectural student and imperial is much better for proportioning the form and details of buildings. Metric is good for precision engineering if you are designing things like tiny screws, electrical items, or things for digital media. Call me old fashioned, but the flaw in the metric scale is that the units being in 1's 10's and 100's means that they are of very different sizes, making proportioning of shapes trickier and they tend to look clumsy especially when composed on CAD.

With imperial, you have the inch [which is fairly sizeable compared to 1cm,] a foot [which can be divided into four neat groups of three or two groups of six] and for smaller items you have easy fractions. Another point is that when measuring and surveying old buildings (which would have been designed in feet and inches anyway) the numbers will be whole and easy to remember in imperial - eg. 12'4" as a pose to 3759 mm. Personally, I just find that I can easily design everything from windows, furniture and lighting to whole structures in attractive shapes, forms and proportions but while using whole imperial figures and fractions that are on my ruler.

[Lyle]

In the UK almost no-one uses metric for their height and weight (ft in, st lb is used almost exclusively).


This is completely true, and absolutely no-one, if asked, would give a distance between two towns in kilometres, everyone would use miles (because Imperial are the only units allowed on road signs).

In my school metric units are almost exclusively used but just for a challenge they might ask us to work out a problem in yards/feet/inches.

Officially, the UK is completely metric, but this is plainly not the case. Most of the time when reading a measurement you will find it in metric with Imperial in brackets, e.g. 8 km (5 miles).

When buying loose vegetables most supermarkets opt for selling them in kilograms, but most market stalls opt for selling them in pounds.

I think that the UK should not convert to metric for the simple reason that it would confuse everybody. Quite recently there was a lot of media hype about a full conversion of Britain's 2 million plus road signs to metric only. What worries me is that the proposal was rejected purely on the grounds of cost, with no consideration to what the people might prefer!

[JohnS]

This is completely true, and absolutely no-one, if asked, would give a distance between two towns in kilometres, everyone would use miles (because Imperial are the only units allowed on road signs).

I think that the UK should not convert to metric for the simple reason that it would confuse everybody. Quite recently there was a lot of media hype about a full conversion of Britain's 2 million plus road signs to metric only. What worries me is that the proposal was rejected purely on the grounds of cost, with no consideration to what the people might prefer!

Yes the road signs are in miles, yet Ordnance Survey maps use metric grid (kilometer squares). So you can only plan the journey in kilometers, but then have to monitor your progress in miles based on your odometer and road signs. Is this not an odd combination?

The usual claim is that the British could not possibly handle the switch to kilometers on road signs, yet Australians, Canadians, New Zealanders and South Africans have handled it pretty well, and quickly. More recently, even the Irish. Are you less able to handle change than they?

The US uses miles (about 99%), yet Americans don't have much trouble when they visit Canada. It just isn't a big deal and you get used to it quickly.

[metricman]

They should not change to kilometeres and metres because it would confuse people? what rubbish! they have been teaching metric in schools for nearly 40 years, and if my nine year old nephew can fully understand metric then why cant grown aduts who have had since 1965 to teach themsleves?. Personally I support going fully metric in the U.K and hope it happens one day. The youngsters should come first as they are the future of this country, and the future use and are taught metric. It is time for the older generations to stop being selfish and except change.

[Robert Fogt]

Things like city blocks are measured using traditional units, hence all buildings, roads, sidewalks, and alleys within them use traditional units.

You could require all new buildings and cities to be built using metric, but what to do with all the old buildings?

[bob]

Kilopoop, there are some areas where I would say metric has taken over from imperial. Are you honestly saying you still work in gallons when you are filling your car up?? everyone works in litres, and to be honest it seems to be excepted. And the only time people work in farenheit in this country is in the summer time because farenheit makes everything sound hotter and more impressive, as soon as its winter everyone works in celcius because its more logical, even my Mum who hates metric prefers celius and admits it better. I dont know anyone of my age group (im 35) who measures in feet and inches when doing manuel work, I work in a furniture warehouse and everyone uses metric. And I should imagine only a small minority of under 40's wok in pounds and ounses whilst cooking, and everyone my age group I know (and i know a few) uses celcius. But why listen to the younger generations hey?

[harvey1611]

Personally, being from the USA, you Brits just need to revert to imperial measures! Besides, if Britain went metric like Ireland & cont Europe then where's the good stuff?

1mi= 1760yd
1yd= 3ft
1ft= 12in

1gal= 160floz/8pt/4qt
1qt= 40floz/2pt
1pt= 20floz

1ton= 2240lb/ 160st
1stone= 14lb
1lb=16oz

[JohnS]

Personally, being from the USA, you Brits just need to revert to imperial measures! Besides, if Britain went metric like Ireland & cont Europe then where's the good stuff?

1mi= 1760yd
1yd= 3ft
1ft= 12in

1gal= 160floz/8pt/4qt
1qt= 40floz/2pt
1pt= 20floz

1ton= 2240lb/ 160st
1stone= 14lb
1lb=16oz

Being from the US, you should know in the US, a gallon is 128 fl oz of a slightly different size, a ton is 2000 lb, and there are no stones. Do we really see an advantage in a world where every country has a different system of measurement and trade is nearly impossible? Metric is the same for everybody. British and US measure have enough similarity to excite the anti-metric forces, and enough differences to confuse the people who actually need to work in both sets of units.

PS: Our bushel is also different than the Imperial bushel.

[Unregistered]

"I think that the UK should not convert to metric for the simple reason that it would confuse everybody. Quite recently there was a lot of media hype about a full conversion of Britain's 2 million plus road signs to metric only. What worries me is that the proposal was rejected purely on the grounds of cost, with no consideration to what the people might prefer!"

The current situation where two systems are used is where the real confusion is, totally bonkers it is too. Kids in school learn to count on the digits of their hands; ten of them, not 8, 12, 14 or 16 as used in awkward illogical imperial units. Weather forecasts have been given in Centigrade for 40 years or more, and we've had bottles and jars of foodstuffs labelled with grams for decades too.

Would anybody in the UK want to go back to 12 pennies in a shilling, 20 shillings or 240 pennies in a pound? Of course not, it's the stuff of the madhouse. It's *change* that people don't like as someone else said. Everyone in the UK uses decimal currency and got used to it quickly in '72, the same would be true of roadsigns etc. We do need a 'K' day!

[Unregistered]

WJG says; The question is.. Should the UK convert to metric?
The answer is... Yes.. It is already happening.
The question should be... When will the UK complete the coversion and fully adopt the metric system?
Full metrication in the UK will occur. Metrication is a process which is and has been encouraged by all counties throughout the world. All countries use the metric system including the USA. To keep using the imperial system is a form of isolation.
The last hurdle in the process of metrication in the UK is the metrication of road signs. When the signs are converted the vast majority of road users and therefore the majority of the public will become more aware of metric units. The signs because they are highly visable will cause people to self educate themselves in the metric system.
Because the UK decided to convert to metric using voluntary metrication, unlike Australia and New Zealand which used manditory metrication, the process in the UK will take many years. Undoubtably full metrication will occur probably within the next 10 years.

[Unregistered]

Thank you for making the sincere attempt to speak about this on forum.onlineconversion.com . I feel very strong about it and would like to read more. If it's OK, as you achieve extra extensive wisdom, may you mind including extra articles similar to this one with additional info? It will be extraordinarily useful and helpful for me and my friends.

[JohnS]

I would suggest Googling the UK Metric Association and its message board Metric Views. You will find a lot more information there.

[Unregistered]

To all of you debating over Metric and Imperial measurements, here's a thought for you. If Britain does adopt metric - and only metric - on its roads (direction signs, speed signs and the like), and on the speed dials of its vehicles, it would also mean, from the motorist or car dealer's point of view, having to supersede the word 'mileage' with the clumsier word of 'kilometrage' which most European languages, particularly those derived from Latin, use. Have any of you ever thought of that?

[JohnS]

To all of you debating over Metric and Imperial measurements, here's a thought for you. If Britain does adopt metric - and only metric - on its roads (direction signs, speed signs and the like), and on the speed dials of its vehicles, it would also mean, from the motorist or car dealer's point of view, having to supersede the word 'mileage' with the clumsier word of 'kilometrage' which most European languages, particularly those derived from Latin, use. Have any of you ever thought of that?

OR, they could look to the major Commonwealth countries that have gone before them for examples. Like Australia, Canada, New Zealand, and South Africa. They all speak English and a more standard "Commonwealth" version than the US speaks. I have never heard of kilometrage before, but Googling, it appears the French use the word. I couldn't find examples of others using it and no application in English.

On odometer reading, the word can be avoided by asking how many kilometers on that car? Vehicle warranties are typically stated as an absolute number of miles or kilometers, 100000 mi/160000 km.

When "mileage" is used as shorthand for miles per gallon, in metric, fuel consumption (the reciprocal) is usually measured in liters per hundred kilometers (L/100 km). American cars are already dual-labelled this way, and this is the primary label for Canadian cars.

Why would you measure miles per gallon, when your fuel is sold in litres?

[Mrs X]

We say "mileage" and mean "litres per 100km", or km/L depending on what makes sense to people. We don't use "kilometerage, which i have never heard of either. :)

In English, "Mileage" is one of those words that has come to mean something different in normal usage that what it did originally.